Curse

Le Grinder · May 20, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

I think from my experience that assassins are generally the target for warriors, and as I see it there are a few things stopping an assassin from taking out a warrior one on one.

1. Stances

2. Damage output

An interrupted chain of attacks will ruin an assassins chances of doing any real damage whatsoever. All a warrior has to do is bring along any number of stances, ripostes, shield bashes and an assassin's day will be ruined.

Therefore, there are one or two options open to an assassin who wants to take down warriors. This can be done by bypassing the stances. Touch skills, Palm Strike, Iron Palm, are both instant hits. Fox fangs cannot be blocked or evaded. If a warrior is blinded and the stance unseen fury, or the hex expose defences will allow the assassin to ignore any stances the warrior is using.

Blind is also a nice status effect to put on a warrior as it will mean that they cannot hurt you or return your damage.

So

1 Palm Strike
2 Blinding powder
3 Expose Defences
4 Twisting Fangs
5 Black Lotus Strike
6 Death Blossom
7 Teleporting spell/running skill
8 Res Sig

15 Dagger Mastery (11 +1 +3)
11 Critical Strikes (10 +1)
11 Shadow Arts (10+1)

Zealous daggers are always handy...

Although Im not entirely sure about the Death blossum, and teleporting skills. Death Blossum might be replaced with Daggers of Steel or some other classy double strike, and with the teleporting skills - this build isn't made to run away from warriors, its meant to kill them, so... is it necessary? Maybe it could be used on another attack skill, or a skill like way of perfection.

Give a shock to the warrior who thinks he'll be safe bringing gladiators or riposte...
Also potentially good for caster protection - kills off warriors that stray too far from the front line?

This is still hypothetical atm, i'm developing it... Any hints/tips from the pros?

unholy guardian · May 20, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

riposite is so annoying in pve, and it hurts really badly and ruins yeah -.- i guess you gotta kill them quicker, but the Ai seems to be better than humans could ever wish, except henchmen...

MaD BaRoN HahA · May 20, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Vipers Defence could be usefull for the annoyance factor as well as Poison, also gives u a second to let skills/energy recharge

Le Grinder · May 20, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

I guess as the teleport skill it might come in useful - after the 12 seconds of blind has worn off, if they're still alive you might not want to hang around. Sounds like a plan...

Le Grinder · May 20, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Hmmm..... I seem to have made a mistake in my calculations - Expose defences is in the deadly arts, not shadow arts. So it would only last 3 seconds. Unseen fury will last 30 seconds, but then black lotus strike will only work if someone else hexes them. Grrr.

So to change around the skills in a workable way...

1 Palm Strike
2 Blinding Powder
3 Unseen Fury
4 Twisting Fangs
5 Golden Phoenix Attack
6 Death Blossom
7 Way of Perfection
8 Res Sig

Way of perfection is an enchantment which would allow the golden phoenix attak to strike, as well as the positive healing bonuses it gives...

Valerius · May 20, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

if it's only Warriors you are wanting to face off against... why not go something like...

Critical Defense + Wild Blow (when needed) ... this will give you an awesome defence and you can use WB to get rid of his stances... you could also use Flashing Blades {E} if you wanted

iono... i don't find Warriors a problem... i like to use AoD {E} so i'll basically just kite the war and try to take him on the other side of a wall or down a floor and then shadow step

Le Grinder · May 20, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Doesn't wild blow need to connect to end the stance - and if they have riposte or a 75% block ratio, chances are it might not work?

Critical defences by itself would be handy, but that still requires a critical hit once every 6 sec - if they block the wild blow, chances don't seem high that youll land a critical hit then.

Also, Ive heard warriors laughing about flashing blades and its effectiveness.

Sincan - is that a fire daggers/run/teleport out of range, cripple them, and continue to fire daggers as they chase you? Seems... kinda slow.

Le Grinder · May 20, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Although the kiting and then teleporting back is a nifty idea. I like that.

What if... · May 20, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

I kite plus teleport alot as well, also once my combo has completed or I realize my combo isn't going to complete, I'll cancel AOD and get back to safety so that I'll have a decent distance to escape if necessary. Also Wild Blow cannot fail/miss/be evaded, I believe it says this in the skill description. I've also noticed the damage combined with the degen from the current favorite four hit chain (Golden Phoenix Strike, Horns of the OX...) will drop a warrior even through his armor, just let the degen do its job.

On a related note, I don't really think the assassin class was ever meant to tank so you really shouldn't be lingering around warriors or heavy armor types anyway (ideally you'd be dropping in on casters will low defense). Typically you can just bait them into activating their defensive skill with a lone lead attack, and resume punishment after the stance ends. Also I can't think of alot of Warriors who do chain a bunch of defensive stances and manage to keep their level of damage threatening; alot seem to believe that hiding behind a long chain of defensive skills they can some how turn the tide of battle single handedly. By the way I'm assuming you're talking about Random Arenas here.

In summary, don't try to tank warriors and if you do have to fight one, don't leave it up to a battle of auto-attacks. Kite, mitigate damage, look for openings, and exploit, this is the purpose of this class.

Son of Urza · May 20, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Yes, Wild Blow cannot be blocked or evaded. It CAN miss, due to blind/spirit of failure/price of failure/reckless haste, but it will punch through stances and ripostes like nothing.

sinican · May 20, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grinder

Doesn't wild blow need to connect to end the stance - and if they have riposte or a 75% block ratio, chances are it might not work?

Critical defences by itself would be handy, but that still requires a critical hit once every 6 sec - if they block the wild blow, chances don't seem high that youll land a critical hit then.

Also, Ive heard warriors laughing about flashing blades and its effectiveness.

Sincan - is that a fire daggers/run/teleport out of range, cripple them, and continue to fire daggers as they chase you? Seems... kinda slow.

yea it sorta is... i was using it in FPE to good avail though... its an annoying build at all melee characters and it is hard to kill... the dancing daggers provides a nice flow of 3x18=54 i used the build with an A/R using sharpen daggers to apply bleeding on each hit and while on the move your dancing daggers will each crit giving you health energy and health back...

it is a great support character and can stack dmg very nicely... with the build you really dont ever actually stand toe to toe...

i would throw sharpen daggers up with crit eye and WoP lob an arrow or two let them start running then throw the dancing daggers for 3 crits to regen hp +energy and let them walk up to me wack with vipers... now having a -7 degen on them(i belueve -4 poison, -3 bleed??)... never actually being able to catch me... most they ever kept getting on me was 1 hit every few seconds plenty of time for refuge and another viper

work well... yes low dmg def not a spiker... but FUN AS HECK

shinja · May 20, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

I dont run into many warriors who pack any decent defense. I would attribute this to the fact people avoid meleeing warriors for the most part, having casters burn them down.

I have only run into a couple of warriors that I could not tank down just from doing more burst damage etc...

I think we have a slight advantage against them because they would have to stack their skill set to counter us, where we can use the same setup on most combinations fairly successfully. In the rock,paper,scissors of it all we have 2 rocks and one paper to their 1 scissors, so to speak.

Ken Dei · May 20, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Unsuspecting Strike/Wild Strike
Fox Fangs
Blinding Powder
Heart of Shadow
Shadow Refuge
Aura of Displacement
Caltrops
Viper's Defense.

Given enough time/lack of interference, this build kills just about any Warrior.

It's a battle of attrition. First, pick a fight by Aura "stepping" to the warrior. Do initial dmg, and hit them with caltrops, then immediately use viper's defense and ride their next hit out. They are now crippled and poisoned. If they manage to take those off, throw on shadow refuge and go in for the combo, blinding them with the final shot. The heart of shadow out of the way again.

Caltrops + Viper's again, then stop maintaining Aura. Now if you've moved around a bit, they have a nice long way to run back to you, giving you time to recup your stats/energy.

A nice battle of attrition in your favor.

And when they try to run....the battle is over. They belong to you. You can now use caltrops to hunt them down, doing criticals from behind all the way. (Unsuspecting Strike + Critical hit. = about 60+ dmg even without the second dmg bonus.)

In my experience, battles last from 30 seconds to 5 minutes, depending on variables. Monk support, avoiding other targets. Under degen pressure. All of which had to be appropriately dealt with before handling the warrior; i.e. killing the monk/degeners.

In a few cases the battle came to a draw. They were never gonna catch me, but I was never going to kill them.

Shendaar · May 20, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Flashing Blades owns most warrior I run into.

LaserLight · May 20, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Dealing with Warriors can be fairly simple since, as has been stated, barely one in ten carries defensive skills. Heck, half don't even bother with HealSiggy. Whereas the average Assassin is going to be slinging, at the least, Viper's Defense, and will typically run either Flashing Blades or Critical Defense, if not both. At the same time, a Daggersin skill stream hits hard - the current GPD/Horns/Spider/Fangs combo can put the smack on any character, armored or otherwise.

In the Random Arenas, which is where this discussion seems to be centered, An intelligent, properly-specced Assassin can take down almost anything. It isn't even about Blind. Let's try this, shall we?

Critical 10 (13)
Dagger 11 (13)
Shadow 10 (11)

Golden Phoenix Strike
Horns of the Ox
Falling Spider
Twisting Fangs
Aura of Displacement [E]
Signet of Malice
Shadow Refuge
ReSig

An RA Assassin with a flexible, potent attack setup, excellent battlefield mobility with AoD, self-heals and condition control both, and the requisite ReSiggy. Against Warriors, who are almost sure to bring either Evis or Sever/Gash, hit them with GPD -> Twisting Fangs and then hit Signet of Malice to offload the enemy Conditions. If ye have more time, go through the whole stream, using either AoD or Shadow Refuge to prep GPD, and snare a triple removal just off your own skills. No guarding stance/enchantment, which kinda sucks, but given the Assassin's mobility and burst punch, it's not crippling.

One useful trick I've found with Aura of Displacement and am not sure all others realize is a sort of inverted use. In the Random Arenas, you'll often find yourself besieged before you get a chance to AoD in and establish an escape route. You're not screwed here without a speed stance - instead, cast AoD right on their faces, then bolt. If they give chase, let them chase a bit, then cancel AoD and flicker back to the established escape route and continue bolting. If they don't chase, then you've taken them out of the equation for now. Same sort of thing that Shadow of Haste does, actually, and any trick that increases the Assassin's battlefield mobility is good to me.

What if... · May 21, 2006, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Another fun use of AOD when kiting is to run towards another cluster of enemies and activate AOD so that you teleport to the position just beyond the thick of the cluster, after which continue running. Hopefully the cluster will be too involved fighting whoever to notice/care that you just used them as a buffer to further kite a threat, and said threat, will now probably never catch you, even with a running buff. Of course if you are caught releasing AOD will save you anyway so...

Lambentviper · May 22, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

ive killed countless warriors in the random arenas with a build like :

Impale >Siphon Speed >Black Mantis Thrust >Jungle Strike >Twisting Fangs >Moebius Strike > Twisting Fangs >few normal attacks.

By the team I start using Moebius, they are using healing sig, which is -40 AL, and moebius does like +28 damage as a dual attack, so it usually reverts all health gained from their heal sig. Twisting fangs the second time around usually finishes em off.

But ripostes, healing hands, Shield of Judgement, etc. are really annoying

Heres some screenies of a 1v4 fight i did today in RA. Damn rage-quitters -.-

I killed 3 different people on the other team, then they finally overwhelmed me because they had an MM and the corpses just fed him :/ but i did nice

shows the true ability of assassin's when used right!